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ALM16HTY

PLEASE DO NOT PUT A LEVEL CAP IN AT LAUNCH

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38 minutes ago, Kasai said:

Sure bud, but I am not the one that brought the disrespect.  So check yourself.

I felt that my original post was respectful and took a pretty logical stance on the situation.

You WILL miss out on at least a months worth of grinding exp even if its soft capped and small its something.  This is a fact.

You people keep saying that we cant change anything but thats because you guys just lay down and take it.  There are many games and cases where the players have made their point very clear and the devs, publishers, whoever usually will hear them out.  Just like the changes they made after beta lol.  I mean the camera issue is a great example.  Personally i didnt have any trouble with it but players spoke up and guess what? they removed it.  Thats just one example out of plenty.

 

Also the microsoft cert program has nothing to do with the pc version of this game lol. FYI.

Please refrain from quoting me further on this topic and others. 

 

Thanks in advance. 

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I think it's funny how noobs don't release this hinders all players, this is called gating what is not good in any MMO

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20 minutes ago, Dr INF3NRO said:

 Im disappointed you didnt mention Y hold.

 

On the topic,

I think the entire approach to this subject is somewhat wrong.

I've been trying to understand and follow on the issue due to the argument rising up in discord and later here.

I can honestly say that the issue isnt conveyed properly, no offense intended, and the entire topic is more of an opinionated conversation between a number of players.

I suggest presenting the facts properly in an organized matter, how it effects the playerbase, how can the issue be resolved in your opinion and maybe make a poll to understand how the community sees the entire situation.

I hope things will work out for the best for everyone.

 

Reasons Level Cap Hurts Players

- Skills that make certain characters “balanced” will be locked at 50. This is pointed out in detail in the original post. This will make many players choices seem lesser then othes. Also, you will develop a playstyle for skills that wont be viable long term. You cannot even effectively learn your character at skill cap 50. Many players will feel theyve made an incorrect choice with there characters and will have to relearn effective combos. This is very counter productive st the begining of an mmo.

 

- Time and experience willl be wasted. In a game where the long run is NO LEVEL CAP AT ALL, once you hit the level cap you will stay at 50.99. This means all the time you spend grinding will be for nothing. BDO in its final rewards you every step of the way for the progress you make. It has no cap, and you need every bit of the time you out in to achieve the highest progression. Where an hour gets you .25 of a percent for your next level, these early hours matter. 

 

- Given the level cap is so low, players wont care about negative effects of going red. Blackstones will be so easy to get, and getting back to 50 is so easy for some that noone will care about going red. Any players that hit 50 will be open season to PVP and it will be done without remore or regret since cap is such a joke. 

 

- Due to the lengthy Xbox Certification process on patches many feel the wont be able to push a patch quick enough to push progression  i cant remeber if @Dr INF3NRO played ESO on pc or xbox, but I believe youd said you had. On xbox ESO had the same issue within the cert process to fix bugs. It took sometimes more then two weeks to get a patch in. Most active players will reach this cap within days, much faster then they can push a patch. The entire game is geared toward rewarding competitive players and again, this is counter to that. This part worrys me the most. 

 

We need atleast 55. Even if soft cap starts somewhere around 53, that will open up almost all of the useful skills and still reward progression. 

Edited by MakeumRage

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6 minutes ago, ALM16HTY said:

That's what my original post was intended for. I laid out the abilities we miss out on with a level 50 cap and laid out the facts about the game that make a level cap a bad idea.

This entire thing is based on an assumption that the "issue" will effect us for x time. 

Are we even sure the problem exists?

 

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2 minutes ago, Dr INF3NRO said:

This entire thing is based on an assumption that the "issue" will effect us for x time. 

Are we even sure the problem exists?

 

Yes. Because patches cant come everyweek. We can hit 50 in a week easy unless theyve severly gimped leveling. And again that would be a slap in the face due to the skills issue. Classes are balanced for up to level 55. And then for awakening. They arent changing class balance, but are restricited levels. Making other shine early and severely gimping other. And everyones playstyle is effected. 

Edited by MakeumRage

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3 minutes ago, MakeumRage said:

Yes. Because patches cant come everyweek. We can hit 50 in a week easy unless theyve severly gimped leveling. And again that would be a slap in the face due to the skills issue. Classes are balanced for up to level 55. And then for awakening. They arent changing class balance, but are restricited levels. Making other shine early and severely gimping other. And everyones playstyle is effected. 

Im gonna use @Jammer480's point of view on the matter of bdx. Would this be considered a problem if you were new to the game? Would you be aware of it? Does it effect your gameplay in the long run? How long does ot effect you?

 

Also the saying that there is no cap is utter nonsense. PA constantly change the lvl cap in each major update.

 

This is my last response regarding this.

 

Cheers

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1 hour ago, NewBlacksmurf said:

I'd ask that you remain respectful as I will to you.

I'm not new, stuck, misunderstanding, unclear on the certification process and actually have played the PC game for a while.

I just disagree with the ideas the reasons that a level cap is wrong, as well as I believe some overreactions and assumptions are being applied.

I see there is a lack of information to some extent but its not anything any of us need because we aren't making any decisions other than whether to buy and play or not.

To be honest the only one I see assuming anything is where you assume a time frame that they will be raising the level cap. They have announced nothing other then that there will not be weekly updates to the game. The only logical conclusion to come from that is that we may be stuck with this level cap for a week or more. These are facts that were posted by the staff. The game will suffer from a cap so low because it was not designed to have a hard cap like this. The two versions that have launched with this hard cap have removed it on the same day, everyone concern here is that the process for that isn't able to be done with the same speed and that we will be capped without the ability to progress in a time where progression is everything. 

I have seen changes asked for on this forum be implemented into the game. I have watched conversations on discord turn into real fixes. Participated in threads on reddit where core aspects of the game were changed, because the player base asked for them. 

I think the only confusion here is why anyone would want a level cap. You said your own reasons are: 

2 hours ago, NewBlacksmurf said:

In my first comment, the reasons the OP makes to not have a level cap, are my reasons to have a level cap.

This doesn't make sense to me and if you could elaborate that would be great because if I am understanding it correctly you are wanting the level cap because of the opposite of every reason he stated? That would mean that you're wanting people to have unbalanced classes, unable to farm efficiently, and lower the value of early access among many other things? Because to me that just doesn't make sense. I can't see any logical reason someone would want any of those things and I would hope that's not your reason.

Level caps encourage a stale environment. They block progression and leave a player with a feeling like they can't make progress. Soft caps give players something to continue to work towards with diminishing gains. Not everyone in the game cares about life skills or doing the quest line and that's okay. Black Desert is a sandbox MMORPG that allows players to play the way they want. Making sure that everyone stays at the same point just defeats the purpose of the game fully. There is a reason that no other server has a hard cap right now for anywhere in Black Desert. It's because players don't like it and it isn't fun.

We already have a working solution for both sides in every other region, why are we going to neglect that here and cut off a whole play style for this game.

Edited by xCROv

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10 minutes ago, Dr INF3NRO said:

Im gonna use @Jammer480's point of view on the matter of bdx. Would this be considered a problem if you were new to the game? Would you be aware of it? Does it effect your gameplay in the long run? How long does ot effect you?

 

Also the saying that there is no cap is utter nonsense. PA constantly change the lvl cap in each major update.

 

This is my last response regarding this.

 

Cheers

I know you said this is your last response but I can't let you go without dropping a reply. Since I feel like I'm the one that originally got you into it. 😋
 

I think that new players may see this as a road block for experienced players allowing them to catch up, and for a short while, it may be. The issue with this is the time frame of the patches that will eventually end up with everyone at the same road block and nowhere to go. I honestly think a soft cap where players have to put countless hours into getting level gains is the best method. It caters to both sides. Players that don't care to put that effort for a few levels can wait for new zones to drop while players that want to grind and enjoy it can continue doing what they all enjoy. I don't see why one side should feel like they can't progress when we already have a working solution that no one complains about on any other server.

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10 minutes ago, Dr INF3NRO said:

Im gonna use @Jammer480's point of view on the matter of bdx. Would this be considered a problem if you were new to the game? Would you be aware of it? Does it effect your gameplay in the long run? How long does ot effect you?

 

Also the saying that there is no cap is utter nonsense. PA constantly change the lvl cap in each major update.

 

This is my last response regarding this.

 

Cheers

YES. It would be huge problem if this was the first ever launch of the game. Due to the fact that BDO has recieved SEVERAL balance passes to balance things at higher levels. The skills and levels dont match up. If the game had been balanced for these levels it would be different. Balanace would be added and adjusted for the levels and skills as the came. Its not the case here. 

 

THERE IS NO LEVEL CAP IN BDO. THEY EDIT THE SOFT CAP. They do this by decreasing the time it takes to get to those levels. Thats why you have 64’s and up. You can easily see this because your percentage still goes up and if you reach max it levels up. There temp caps like 49.99 that requires a quest to lift it. This is a very untrue statement. 

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There are alot of people in here who do not understand how leveling / growth work in BDO.

While I respect peoples opinions, those arguing to a hard cap are simply inexperienced and ignorant on the subject.

Its like people who have played golf and tennis trying to comment on how to sink in an armbar in MMA.

Its something you guys dont understand unless youve grinded heavily in BDO before.

Growth in BDO is endless and limited by "softcaps" that slow you down considerably once you reach certian points.

This is also reflected on the growth leaderboards , showing who has put in the most time effectively leveling.

A hard cap stops your progression towards your combat level,  wasting exp, and stopping everyone at 50.99, making the growth leader boards useless.

The way the game should be is soft capping, that moves with expansions.

This soft cap makes leveling much more difficult... for example there are hundreds (if not thousands) 62's in KR, a handful (maby 100) of 63's, and  2 64's that I know of.

Say 50 is the soft cap:

Leveling goes from minutes (1-35 ish) to half hours (36-50) to 5-10 hours to 51, 20-25 hours to 52, 40-50 hours to 53, ~80 hours to 54, ~ 120 hours to 55, ~ 250-300 hours to 56, ~ 600-700 hours to 57, ect.

With a soft cap at 50, those who are 56 damn well earned it.

Capping everyone to something that can be achieved in less than a day is an insult to the game and its players.

 

Edited by Harming
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3 minutes ago, xCROv said:

I know you said this is your last response but I can't let you go without dropping a reply. Since I feel like I'm the one that originally got you into it. 😋
 

I think that new players may see this as a road block for experienced players allowing them to catch up, and for a short while, it may be. The issue with this is the time frame of the patches that will eventually end up with everyone at the same road block and nowhere to go. I honestly think a soft cap where players have to put countless hours into getting level gains is the best method. It caters to both sides. Players that don't care to put that effort for a few levels can wait for new zones to drop while players that want to grind and enjoy it can continue doing what they all enjoy. I don't see why one side should feel like they can't progress when we already have a working solution that no one complains about on any other server.

If they take that route it will be the first time. Bdo always has soft caps in the past, only hardcaps on some launches. Which is fine if at a higher level that unlocks the skills. I get the hard cap to allow players to buy the game for a little while and join im and be evenly matched. Or even a heavy soft cap. The issue here is that classes are gimped and unbalanced at the current cap.

 

I believe most of us are asking that the hard cap be raised and hopes of a soft cap. But at the very least we need more skills, weve gotta have more levels. Even if its just two weeks, its a slap in the face and doesnt given us the chance to even learn the characters right. 

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15 minutes ago, xCROv said:

To be honest the only one I see assuming anything is where you assume a time frame that they will be raising the level cap. They have announced nothing other then that there will not be weekly updates to the game. The only logical conclusion to come from that is that we may be stuck with this level cap for a week or more. These are facts that were posted by the staff. The game will suffer from a cap so low because it was not designed to have a hard cap like this. The two versions that have launched with this hard cap have removed it on the same day, everyone concern here is that the process for that isn't able to be done with the same speed and that we will be capped without the ability to progress in a time where progression is everything. 

I have seen changes asked for on this forum be implemented into the game. I have watched conversations on discord turn into real fixes. Participated in threads on reddit where core aspects of the game were changed, because the player base asked for them. 

I think the only confusion here is why anyone would want a level cap. You said your own reasons are: 

This doesn't make sense to me and if you could elaborate that would be great because if I am understanding it correctly you are wanting the level cap because of the opposite of every reason he stated? That would mean that you're wanting people to have unbalanced classes, unable to farm efficiently, and lower the value of early access among many other things? Because to me that just doesn't make sense. I can't see any logical reason someone would want any of those things and I would hope that's not your reason.

Level caps encourage a stale environment. They block progression and leave a player with a feeling like they can't make progress. Soft caps give players something to continue to work towards with diminishing gains. Not everyone in the game cares about life skills or doing the quest line and that's okay. Black Desert is a sandbox MMORPG that allows players to play the way they want. Making sure that everyone stays at the same point just defeats the purpose of the game fully. There is a reason that no other server has a hard cap right now for anywhere in Black Desert. It's because players don't like it and it isn't fun.

Nothing is being assumed by me that the CM haven’t wrote out on this topic. 

I have not sought to define or establish what their timeframe stands for in any way. 

There isn’t any logical conclusion anyone can make as there isn’t evidence or details provided to draw any conclusions. 

There are no facts that anyone will be stuck at a level cap for a week as no time is defined. 

No comments on your other assumptions later. 

We have all seen changes...I feel it’s important here to point out I’ve not wrote or suggested no changes will occur. Perhaps something I quoted that was written by someone else was misinterpreted.  

I do agree there is a lot of confusion in this topic but that’s between each person rather than the game itself, there’s a lot of assumptions tho for opinions that a level cap means x or y and has x impacts. 

 

Theres actually nothing to explain as its been atated a few times few times by myself that based on the OP, the points they make to suggest a level cap shouldn’t exist are the exact reasons one should exist from my point of view. 

So again it’s my observation that many are using the PC game to draw unfounded conclusions on this game that hasn’t released. We have literally no idea how things will work out at this point. 

 

Perhaps after the first day or two there’s an opportunity to better discuss but for now...in my opinion it’s a situation of sitting back and waiting. 

 

Edited by NewBlacksmurf

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1 minute ago, NewBlacksmurf said:

Nothing is being assumed by me that the CM haven’t wrote out on this topic. 

I have not sought to define or establish what their timeframe stands for in any way. 

There isn’t any logical conclusion anyone can make as there isn’t evidence or details provided to draw any conclusions. 

There are no facts that anyone will be stuck at a level cap for a week as no time is defined. 

No comments on your other assumptions later. 

We have all seen changes...I feel it’s important here to point out I’ve not wrote or suggested no changes will occur. Perhaps something I quoted that was written by someone else was misinterpreted.  

I do agree there is a lot of confusion in this topic but that’s between each person rather than the game itself, there’s a lot of assumptions tho for opinions that a level cap means x or y and has x impacts. 

 

Theres actually nothing to explain as its been atated a few times few times by myself that based on the OP, the points they make to suggest a level cap shouldn’t exist are the exact reasons one should exist from my point of view. 

So again it’s my observation that many are using the PC game to draw unfounded conclusions on this game that hasn’t released. 

Its the same game, just with gated comtent.

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45 minutes ago, Beond said:

I think it's funny how noobs don't release this hinders all players, this is called gating what is not good in any MMO

Even more funnier that everyone with different opinion is noob. Ah beond...beond...

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14 minutes ago, xCROv said:

I know you said this is your last response but I can't let you go without dropping a reply. Since I feel like I'm the one that originally got you into it. 😋
 

I think that new players may see this as a road block for experienced players allowing them to catch up, and for a short while, it may be. The issue with this is the time frame of the patches that will eventually end up with everyone at the same road block and nowhere to go. I honestly think a soft cap where players have to put countless hours into getting level gains is the best method. It caters to both sides. Players that don't care to put that effort for a few levels can wait for new zones to drop while players that want to grind and enjoy it can continue doing what they all enjoy. I don't see why one side should feel like they can't progress when we already have a working solution that no one complains about on any other server.

And it seems like jammer changed his mind too? after remember cap took a long time because of low level mobs

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17 minutes ago, NewBlacksmurf said:

Nothing is being assumed by me that the CM haven’t wrote out on this topic. I have not sought to define or establish what their timeframe stands for in any way. There isn’t any logical conclusion anyone can make as there isn’t evidence or details provided to draw any conclusions. There are no facts that anyone will be stuck at a level cap for a week as no time is defined. No comments on your other assumptions later. We have all seen changes...I feel it’s important here to point out I’ve not wrote or suggested no changes will occur. Perhaps something I quoted that was written by someone else was misinterpreted.  I do agree there is a lot of confusion in this topic but that’s between each person rather than the game itself, there’s a lot of assumptions tho for opinions that a level cap means x or y and has x impacts. 

Theres actually nothing to explain as its been atated a few times few times by myself that based on the OP, the points they make to suggest a level cap shouldn’t exist are the exact reasons one should exist from my point of view. So again it’s my observation that many are using the PC game to draw unfounded conclusions on this game that hasn’t released. We have literally no idea how things will work out at this point. 

 

Perhaps after the first day or two there’s an opportunity to better discuss but for now...in my opinion it’s a situation of sitting back and waiting. 

You quoted the AMA response and bolded the below:

2 hours ago, NewBlacksmurf said:

Its as if you are stuck on the first part and have neglected everything after the comma.

"50 will be the level cap at launch, but it will increase relatively quickly"

 

 

Implying that the time frame isn't an issue. This is where you are finding your largest blow back from everyone here as you mentioned in your last line: "Perhaps after the first day or two there’s an opportunity to better discuss but for now...in my opinion it’s a situation of sitting back and waiting." and I think this is where you are missing the plethora of comments here that have told you that there will be no "quick" changes or discussion after game. If you read the AMA that you keep pointing out, it was clearly stated that...

There will not be "quick" changes to something that is implemented into the game at launch. It will come, at least, a week out from launch. This means that everyone that starts the game at early access will reach cap and have no progression. This is the point that you appear to be missing. These changes wont come fast if they are in the game at launch. Period. There is no debating that. That's where the issue everyone has is. If we are hard capped, it's not changing past launch for a timeframe that just isn't acceptable for a game that just released.

If you want to sit back and wait, that's great, you're entitled to that. The rest of us would like to vocalize our opinion and see changes to the game that would make it better just like past thread have done on this forum.

Edited by xCROv

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26 minutes ago, Harming said:

There are alot of people in here who do not understand how leveling / growth work in BDO.

While I respect peoples opinions, those arguing to a hard cap are simply inexperienced and ignorant on the subject.

Its like people who have played golf and tennis trying to comment on how to sink in an armbar in MMA.

Its something you guys dont understand unless youve grinded heavily in BDO before.

Growth in BDO is endless and limited by "softcaps" that slow you down considerably once you reach certian points.

This is also reflected on the growth leaderboards , showing who has put in the most time effectively leveling.

A hard cap stops your progression towards your combat level,  wasting exp, and stopping everyone at 50.99, making the growth leader boards useless.

The way the game should be is soft capping, that moves with expansions.

This soft cap makes leveling much more difficult... for example there are hundreds (if not thousands) 62's in KR, a handful (maby 100) of 63's, and  2 64's that I know of.

Say 50 is the soft cap:

Leveling goes from minutes (1-35 ish) to half hours (36-50) to 5-10 hours to 51, 20-25 hours to 52, 40-50 hours to 53, ~80 hours to 54, ~ 120 hours to 55, ~ 250-300 hours to 56, ~ 600-700 hours to 57, ect.

With a soft cap at 50, those who are 56 damn well earned it.

Capping everyone to something that can be achieved in less than a day is an insult to the game and its players.

 

Yep I really hope casuals do not kill this game with crying

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15 minutes ago, xCROv said:

You quoted the AMA response and bolded the below:

 

Implying that the time frame isn't an issue. This is where you are finding your largest blow back from everyone here as you mentioned in your last line: "Perhaps after the first day or two there’s an opportunity to better discuss but for now...in my opinion it’s a situation of sitting back and waiting." and I think this is where you are missing the plethora of comments here that have told you that there will be no "quick" changes or discussion after game. If you read the AMA that you keep pointing out, it was clearly stated that...

There will not be "quick" changes to something that is implemented into the game at launch. It will come, at least, a week out from launch. This means that everyone that starts the game at early access will reach cap and have no progression. This is the point that you appear to be missing. These changes wont come fast if they are in the game at launch. Period. There is no debating that. That's where the issue everyone has is. If we are hard capped, it's not changing past launch for a timeframe that just isn't acceptable for a game that just released.

If you want to sit back and wait, that's great, you're entitled to that. The rest of us would like to vocalize our opinion and see changes to the game that would make it better just like past thread have done on this forum.

It seems you disagree so you’re accusing me of implying something. I simply am providing what they wrote and giving my opinion that what was said is fine. 

Im not trying to stop anyone from saying anything just that I keep getting quoted so I’m responding. 

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29 minutes ago, MakeumRage said:

Its the same game, just with gated comtent.

There appears to be differences tho, based on some of the AMA responses about not releasing with x or y to gauge things. 

Content aside it’ll be interesting to see how it going to all play out

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3 minutes ago, NewBlacksmurf said:

There appears to be differences tho, based on some of the AMA responses about not releasing with x or y to gauge things. 

Content aside it’ll be interesting to see how it going to all play out

What they are launching has been a cookie cutter launch and is following in the same footsteps as every BDO launch before it, other than this level cap and non-weekly updates.

Edited by xCROv

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22 minutes ago, Beond said:

Yep I really hope casuals do not kill this game with crying

If they cater to casuals, they will not only drive vets, serious and competitive palyers aeay like eso did, but the game will die. 

 

Casuals not only dont spend or play as much, but also wont be able to stay entertained with bdo. They would have to change the entire game lol. I doubt thatll happen give they seem to stay true to the oure port over. 

11 minutes ago, xCROv said:

What they are launching has been a cookie cutter launch and is following in the same footsteps as every BDO launch before it, other than this level cap and non-weekly updates.

 

Yup and thats what they need to take into consideration. We will reach this cap within days. Unless on top of the rediculous class gimping hard cap, theyve also added a soft cap which will be a slap in the face. And there will be no way to quick patch us a new cap or updates. 

 

The classes and skills were designed for 55+ and balanced for so. That being said things just wont be right other wise. 

14 minutes ago, NewBlacksmurf said:

There appears to be differences tho, based on some of the AMA responses about not releasing with x or y to gauge things. 

Content aside it’ll be interesting to see how it going to all play out

Not releasing things is what gated means. 

Edited by MakeumRage

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16 minutes ago, xCROv said:

What they are launching has been a cookie cutter launch and is following in the same footsteps as every BDO launch before it, other than this level cap and non-weekly updates.

If that’s the case why is everyone flipping out?  Honest question as I joined on PC after launch. 

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6 minutes ago, MakeumRage said:

If they cater to casuals, they will not only drive vets, serious and competitive palyers aeay like eso did, but the game will die. 

 

Casuals not only dont spend or play as much, but also wont be able to stay entertained with bdo. They would have to change the entire game lol. I doubt thatll happen give they seem to stay true to the oure port over. 

 

 

Exactly

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17 minutes ago, MakeumRage said:

Not releasing things is what gated means. 

I understand what it means, however that was not what I was responding to. Differences in terms of the UI, settings, controls, limited regions and servers. 

Thats not gated stuff it’s different...make sense. 

Edited by NewBlacksmurf

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