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If a GM would be so kind as to pull the below topic to the "general" that would be great. What I though was a bug is actually "Customer Service"?

Thanks in advance.

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This is not the first or last time ill see a game that bans people for refunds. And the fact that your demanding a refund for a game u gifted to someone else in this process is laughable. 

 

Dont get me wrong i understand there are some legit reasons for a refund, but u didnt wait. U went behind PA to microsoft for the refund and thats where the issue lies. Why? Because if u look back even a year or 2 into refund fraud u would see games where people would spend thousands for cash shop stuff then go to the source(apple, android, microsoft, sony) for a refund beind the developers back and most times would get the refund while still keeping everything they bought in game.

Game or war-fire age on mobile is a prime example.  Someone could drop 10k, get a refund, drop the same 10k, get refund etc.

Companies have gotten smart about this, so refunds not directly issued by them are, in most cases, considered to be a fraud attempt. 

 

Sorry this has happened but i suggest u patiently wait to speak with PA about this

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I think that’s what happening to me I accidentally bought two pearl packs because I didn’t get s confirmation it went through so I contacted them threw support ticket and told them to refund me since I didn’t open it and they told me to go through Microsoft to get a refund and I did that then the game updated and suddenly I can’t log on. I can get to character select but it just says disconnected to game. 

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5 minutes ago, Knotty said:

I think that’s what happening to me I accidentally bought two pearl packs because I didn’t get s confirmation it went through so I contacted them threw support ticket and told them to refund me since I didn’t open it and they told me to go through Microsoft to get a refund and I did that then the game updated and suddenly I can’t log on. I can get to character select but it just says disconnected to game. 

If u have the correspondence where they told u to get a refund through microsoft then you are safe on that part. U should contact PA again with your current issue, explain the previous issue as well as a screen shot of the solution THEY gave u and ask how to proceed.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hieraphant said:

This is not the first or last time ill see a game that bans people for refunds. And the fact that your demanding a refund for a game u gifted to someone else in this process is laughable. 

 

Dont get me wrong i understand there are some legit reasons for a refund, but u didnt wait. U went behind PA to microsoft for the refund and thats where the issue lies. Why? Because if u look back even a year or 2 into refund fraud u would see games where people would spend thousands for cash shop stuff then go to the source(apple, android, microsoft, sony) for a refund beind the developers back and most times would get the refund while still keeping everything they bought in game.

Game or war-fire age on mobile is a prime example.  Someone could drop 10k, get a refund, drop the same 10k, get refund etc.

Companies have gotten smart about this, so refunds not directly issued by them are, in most cases, considered to be a fraud attempt.  

 

Sorry this has happened but i suggest u patiently wait to speak with PA about this

I understand your view and but as it stands it doesn't gratify what's happened. The BDO team is quite responsive, I'd say they always reply within the hour but generally much quicker. Even after the BDO admitted fault the refund was denied on grounds that I had equipped the items. Unfortunately without equipping the items and contacting the BDO team I wouldn't have known that the text in the UI was false. A simple removal of the items and refund of the items (in pearls) didn't seem unreasonable to me?

I did wait for the team to respond over 2 days (I believe?) without a response. They only responded to me after I informed the BDO team that MS had refunded the pearls and to close the open tickets. It was done within the hour.

In my original ticket I asked that the items be removed and refunded, I didn't ask to keep them or ask for compensation.

Through the whole process I've tried to be as amicable as possible BUT it is difficult to resolve a situation if the other side is unwilling to respond.

I've have supported this game prior to launch by purchasing the Ultimate edition, I purchased Pearl packs there after and looked to support this game monetarily into the future much like I have with Warframe, Gems of War as many other games.

 

Also as reference upon informing the BDO team that it had been resolved with MS;

Quote

Greetings Adventurer,

This is GM XXX from Black Desert Xbox Team. It is my pleasure to assist you today.

We are glad to know that your issue has been fixed and the pearls were refunded. 
We will take note of your feedback and take note of this ticket to improve our services.

If you have any other questions or concerns, contact us again.

Regards,

GM XXX
Black Desert Xbox Team

 

There was no mention of a block on the account. I didn't receive an email stating as such. Nothing. I've been dealing with the Network team to resolve the issue the past few days. That was unfortunately a waste of time for both myself and the team.

 

 

Edited by Crimson
Added quote

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Posted (edited)

Im still curious what item had this false UI issue as u never explained it in any if your posts.

What u did though was accept and acknowledge opening a pearl pack negated the ability for a refund(binding contract). So regardless what u spent it on u agree not to accept a refund. Plain text. No UI error there.

 

 

I know it seems harsh what im saying, ive just had to deal with many similar situations in my years of gaming. Technicalities and how things are presented and agreed upon is what protects the company or a player in situations. At least BDO has far more "are u sure u wanna do this" text boxes appear then other games

Edited by Hieraphant

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Hieraphant said:

Im still curious what item had this false UI issue as u never explained it in any if your posts.

What u did though was accept and acknowledge opening a pearl pack negated the ability for a refund(binding contract). So regardless what u spent it on u agree not to accept a refund. Plain text. No UI error there. 

 

 

I know it seems harsh what im saying, ive just had to deal with many similar situations in my years of gaming. Technicalities and how things are presented and agreed upon is what protects the company or a player in situations. At least BDO has far more "are u sure u wanna do this" text boxes appear then other games

I had purchased and equipped 6 pearl items, items that I purchased because I wanted to. Later on I saw in "My Information" (inventory UI) that there was an "Outfit Slot Equipment Effect" (8 Parts) that effected Weapon durability consumption -10% and death penalty -10%. I then purchased "[Warrior] Rektar Piercing" and "[Warrior] Raven Ear Cuff" to trigger the 8 piece effect. After equipping 8 Parts in my pearl inventory the effect did not activate so I contacted BDO advise if this is a bug and if so, an ETA for a fix?

I had a reply;

Quote

Greetings and Salutations Adventurer

I am GM XXX of the Black Desert Xbox Team, and I am here to answer your Inquiry.

I have seen your ticket and read your concern, as such, please be informed that the 8-Piece Trigger effect comes from the 8 Slots Pearl Equipments - Helmet, Body, Gloves, Shoes, Main-Weapon, Off-Hand, Underwear, and Awakening Weapons. As we currently do not have Awakening available in-game, the set-trigger could not yet be activated.

I hope for your kind understanding regarding this matter.

If you have further or other concerns, inquiries, feedback or suggestions, please do not hesitate to file us another ticket.

Sincerely

GM XXX
Black Desert Xbox Team

The problem is that it does not state that this 8 piece effect is disabled, unavailable or coming soon. It's right there and is presented as in the game, presently.

I explained that the purchases (the 2 items) were based on what was presented in the UI and so asked for the 2 items be removed and refunded. A simple process I thought under the circumstances.

Quote

Greetings Adventurer,

This is GM XXX from Black Desert Xbox Team. It is my pleasure to assist you today.

We understand that you wanted to refund the costume as it currently not trigger the 8 Piece Trigger effect as Awakening is not available yet. In line with your inquiry, as you've already used the item, we do not refund used items based on our operational policy. Only the Unopened/Unused/Not Equipped Items are recoverable.

We hope for your kind understanding regarding this matter and if you have any other concerns, don't hesitate to contact us.

Regards,

GM XXX
Black Desert Xbox Team

I don't believe that the operational policy covers for this situation. I didn't buy the items and then change my mind . The UI presented the information as is in-game and I purchased accordingly. There was no notification that the 8-piece effect was not in-game or required Awakening. I'm new to the game so wouldn't know that.

Regarding the notification when opening pearl packs; I cannot remember what it says but I would imagine that when you open a pearl pack that you're unable to refund the pearls back to the original currency, £ or $ for example, since the operational policy does allow for the removal and refund of items under certain circumstances.

I imagine that MS/Xbox don't hand out refunds willy-nilly so if the platform holder agreed with me and issued a refund then perhaps the BDO team has approached this situation poorly?

I'm open to criticism and harsh replies; it's how we learn after all.

The most frustrating aspect is that the BDO team have gone dark again. I've previously praised the BDO team for quick responses regarding issues but they seem to switch off when "refund" is mentioned.

This situation is really killing the enjoyment I've been having on the game. I've spent over £100 to support this game, I clocked the 500 hours reward before my account was blocked, I try to participate is as much content as I can but it's pretty hard because the world is so full and rich which seems to be pretty rare these days. I'm still hopeful that this can be resolved.

Edited by Crimson
Edited typo & names.

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Posted (edited)

You know it says the effect can’t be triggered be cause awakening isn’t out yet right? Also it says only unopened/unequipped items can be recovered

Edited by Xuan

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Xuan said:

You know it says the effect can’t be triggered be cause awakening isn’t out yet right? Also it says only unopened/unequipped items can be recovered

I know that because customer services told me after I made the purchases and requested why the effect wasn't working. Does it mention that in the inventory UI or in-game? If so could you please tell me where because I'll hold my hands up and say I missed it.

If you open the "Inventory" and press RB twice where you should end up on the "My information" tab. All it states for me (apart from other equipment effects) is;
 

Quote

 

Outfit Slot Equipment Effect

4 Parts : Combat EXP +10%

6 Parts : Skill EXP +10%

8 Parts : Weapon Durability

Consumption -10%

Death Penalty -10%

 

The 4 and 6 effects are highlighted blue because they're active, the 8 parts effect is greyed out because it's inactive. There's no mention of requiring Awakening to enable this effect that I can see.

Regarding the recovery of items as you explained and is detailed in the "Recovery Support Criteria Table" of the operational policy is for "Wrong items purchased at the Pearl Store.". The other documented situation detailed is where " The items wrongly and mistakenly gifted to someone through Pearl Store." Neither of those cover this situation.

 

Edited by Crimson

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16 minutes ago, Crimson said:

Recovery Support Criteria Table" of the operational policy is for "Wrong items purchased at the Pearl Store.". The other documented situation detailed is where " The items wrongly and mistakenly gifted to someone through Pearl Store." Neither of those cover this situation.

Because u used the items.  If u bought the wrong items or gifted the wrong item and they were not touched it wouldnt be an issue. U used them which invalidates wanting a refund according to the policy.

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37 minutes ago, Hieraphant said:

Because u used the items.  If u bought the wrong items or gifted the wrong item and they were not touched it wouldnt be an issue. U used them which invalidates wanting a refund according to the policy.

You're right under the circumstances outline in the Recovery Support Criteria Table; either "Wrong items purchased at the Pearl Store." or " The items wrongly and mistakenly gifted to someone through Pearl Store.".

The purchases of the 2 items to create a 8-piece set was done so based on information that wasn't true. It wasn't a bug, the content isn't available so the information should not have been displayed in game. This was obviously an oversight. It should have been a straightforward refund under the circumstances.

Ultimately, the company generated revenue (no matter how great or small) based on false information which is fraud. You can't argue that fact.

I still believe that under the circumstances, not "Wrong items purchased at the Pearl Store." or " The items wrongly and mistakenly gifted to someone through Pearl Store." that a refund request is reasonable.

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Reading  through this thread, let’s be honest here..

As a normal customer in the real world, buying a product, you expect things to work as intended.

Proper customer service would refund the customer full amount for this situation because the product is incomplete. Ar that point the product would either A) Be pulled from shelves until it works as intended or B) The sales rep would go to each store with some updated marketing ‘sticker’ that says ‘full product effect will be supported at a later date’ and stick it on every product packaging. Either way, bad customer experience, bad product presentation.

The customer here has every right to a refund because the 8 piece effect isn’t WORKING AS INTENDED. 

If it was me, I get a refund from Microsoft explaining in detail the situation and if PA locks my account because of a refund from Microsoft, I go back to Microsoft and get a refund for the entire game. I guarantee you I would get a game refund regardless of hours played because PA is wrong in both accounts, incomplete product and improper customer account management.

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8 piece is working. It's not broken.

 

They currently only have 7 slots for sale. And the buyer didn't realize this and wants a refund.

I have a 4 piece costume plus 2 more for knowledge. Think the 7th slot is lucky underwear and brings value without the 8 piece. 

I am getting my use out of these pieces and know what I was buying.

 

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Lack of information is not same as false information though. Saying this is an 8 piece bonus without specifying exactly what is needed is not false information. That is in fact what bonus u get with the 8 pieces.  

Im not argueing that it should be taken as a misunderstanding because of bad UI, but your trying to portray them as stealing and claiming false information when the information is accurate. U assumed that any 8 pieces would suffice and....well....you know what they say when u assume.

4 minutes ago, Uberkull said:

Reading  through this thread, let’s be honest here..

 

The customer here has every right to a refund because the 8 piece effect isn’t WORKING AS INTENDED. 

 

I absolute agree with this statement. 100% true. 

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2 hours ago, Uberkull said:

Reading  through this thread, let’s be honest here..

As a normal customer in the real world, buying a product, you expect things to work as intended.

Proper customer service would refund the customer full amount for this situation because the product is incomplete. Ar that point the product would either A) Be pulled from shelves until it works as intended or B) The sales rep would go to each store with some updated marketing ‘sticker’ that says ‘full product effect will be supported at a later date’ and stick it on every product packaging. Either way, bad customer experience, bad product presentation.

The customer here has every right to a refund because the 8 piece effect isn’t WORKING AS INTENDED. 

If it was me, I get a refund from Microsoft explaining in detail the situation and if PA locks my account because of a refund from Microsoft, I go back to Microsoft and get a refund for the entire game. I guarantee you I would get a game refund regardless of hours played because PA is wrong in both accounts, incomplete product and improper customer account management. 

Thank you for your support. I did get a refund for the pearl pack used to fund the purchase of the items through the Xbox customer support team. Unfortunately my account was blocked by the BDO customer service team until I repurchased the pearl pack that was refunded. The BDO customer service team pretty much help my account ransom because Xbox did what they wouldn't. The BDO overruled the Platform owner which raises concerns about customer protection on the Xbox platform but that's a story for another time.

 

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2 hours ago, Doktar said:

8 piece is working. It's not broken.

 

They currently only have 7 slots for sale. And the buyer didn't realize this and wants a refund.

I have a 4 piece costume plus 2 more for knowledge. Think the 7th slot is lucky underwear and brings value without the 8 piece. 

I am getting my use out of these pieces and know what I was buying.

 

I think you may have misunderstood. Attached is one of the images that I originally sent the customer support team when I inquired if there was a bug;

24-03-2019_10-48-33-yjob4mh1.thumb.png.e895aa7f7921cd4f5a1485cd8018f0a2.png

As you can see, there's 8 items equipped and I'm not the only one to complain about this;

 

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8 minutes ago, Crimson said:

I think you may have misunderstood. Attached is one of the images that I originally sent the customer support team when I inquired if there was a bug;

24-03-2019_10-48-33-yjob4mh1.thumb.png.e895aa7f7921cd4f5a1485cd8018f0a2.png

As you can see, there's 8 items equipped and I'm not the only one to complain about this;

 

But the 8 piece is working, just dont have the specific 8th piece yet. Its not any 8 random pieces. As they told u its 8 specific.

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25 minutes ago, Crimson said:

The BDO overruled the Platform owner which raises concerns about customer protection on the Xbox platform but that's a story for another time.

 

Thats how it is with everything.  Your playing PA game not Microsoft's.  Why would microsoft have more authority of PAs game then them?? Thats a terrible business model

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hieraphant said:

Thats how it is with everything.  Your playing PA game not Microsoft's.  Why would microsoft have more authority of PAs game then them?? Thats a terrible business model

I understand your point of view and this isn't a dig at Microsoft. All the major console companies have claimed actions to protect customer rights and protect "children". I think these have been thrown around needlessly at times in the past but any platform is supposed to safe regardless of age.

If a platform holder can't hold companies accountable for operations on their service then how can they assure the protection of users?

As I've previously said, BDO customer services are very prompt at responding to issues, I'd say you get a response in well under an hour BUT they haven't responded to my tickets about the refund request and no one has addressed this topic (or the other post) in the forum. They knew about this issue when I inquired about it on 24-03-2019. They haven't even put a notification in-game to inform users like they did previously about missing silver in the CM at launch and currently the guild quests not completing as intended.

This maybe a one off issue on BDO and I hope it is but as games-as-a-service become more prevalent in the future and as a lot of the games on the market use their own digital currency, I imagine situations similar to this will happen more frequently. I don't mean epidemic scale by any means, just more frequently but if the platform holder is "powerless" to protect it's users then what rights can they offer and actually enforce?

For instance I have 3 children that engage with Xbox services on Xbox One and Windows 10. As a parent I'd like to know that if a company ripped off my kids that something could be done about in the event the company responsible isn't willing to resolve the issue or even communicate.

My suggestion maybe a terrible business model for business but the current one is bad for consumers.

Edit: I don't know if I made it clear but I don't mean platform holders should control developer/publisher business models, just aid in resolving issues when necessary - basically protect there customers/users.

That may have deviated from the issue at hand but I don't mind been called on things that I say. I don't mind hearing and discussing apposing views. I just wish that customer support would be so open.

Edited by Crimson

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1 hour ago, Crimson said:

I understand your point of view and this isn't a dig at Microsoft. All the major console companies have claimed actions to protect customer rights and protect "children". I think these have been thrown around needlessly at times in the past but any platform is supposed to safe regardless of age.

If a platform holder can't hold companies accountable for operations on their service then how can they assure the protection of users?

As I've previously said, BDO customer services are very prompt at responding to issues, I'd say you get a response in well under an hour BUT they haven't responded to my tickets about the refund request and no one has addressed this topic (or the other post) in the forum. They knew about this issue when I inquired about it on 24-03-2019. They haven't even put a notification in-game to inform users like they did previously about missing silver in the CM at launch and currently the guild quests not completing as intended.

This maybe a one off issue on BDO and I hope it is but as games-as-a-service become more prevalent in the future and as a lot of the games on the market use their own digital currency, I imagine situations similar to this will happen more frequently. I don't mean epidemic scale by any means, just more frequently but if the platform holder is "powerless" to protect it's users then what rights can they offer and actually enforce?

For instance I have 3 children that engage with Xbox services on Xbox One and Windows 10. As a parent I'd like to know that if a company ripped off my kids that something could be done about in the event the company responsible isn't willing to resolve the issue or even communicate.

My suggestion maybe a terrible business model for business but the current one is bad for consumers.

Edit: I don't know if I made it clear but I don't mean platform holders should control developer/publisher business models, just aid in resolving issues when necessary - basically protect there customers/users.

That may have deviated from the issue at hand but I don't mind been called on things that I say. I don't mind hearing and discussing apposing views. I just wish that customer support would be so open.

Platform owners do hold exclusive platform game publishers accountable. That is facr.

There is no way MS is going to jeopardize their current initiative to further strengthen their Gaming platform. With the moves over the last year to buy 1st party dev studios, buy once play anywhere for PC, Xbox games running native on PC(not streamed), and the rebranding of the Xbox brand to Xbox Game Studios. Point is, MS will not allow inferior titles or publisher practices to jeopardize their brand,

Two things that PA needs to address.

1) The customer support experience. Blocking a account because of a MS platform refund. Horrible customer experience. The sale goes through MS store, not PA. So the customer route is through MS. Period. PA needs to understand the rules here in NA.

2) Memory leak issues where all resources are consumed on the Xbox. Play enough in one gaming session and you will eventually see this error. No game on the  Xbox platform has ever triggered this error. This is not acceptable.

If enough customers complain to MS in a constructive way and explain what PA is doing to customers, MS will address the issue.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Hieraphant said:

But the 8 piece is working, just dont have the specific 8th piece yet. Its not any 8 random pieces. As they told u its 8 specific.

Umm bro there are 8 slots... outfit = 3 helm =1 aka thats first line....weapon =1 sub =1 underwear = 1and glasses = 1... thats 8.....glad you still comment these forums not knowing a thing about bdo.... and dont try to say the outfits 1 ... its always been 3 slots hence why it breaks down for the most valks

Edited by Danksaurusrex

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5 minutes ago, Danksaurusrex said:

Umm bro there are 8 slots... outfit = 3 helm =1 aka thats first line....weapon =1 sub =1 underwear = 1and glasses = 1... thats 8.....glad you still comment these forums not knowing a thing about bdo.... and dont try to say the outfits 1 ... its always been 3 slots hence why it breaks down for the most valks

Umm bro scroll up and real Peal Abyss reply to the origional poster saying the awakening costume piece is the 8th item needed not glasses. 

 

On 3/30/2019 at 6:00 PM, Crimson said:

reetings and Salutations Adventurer

I am GM XXX of the Black Desert Xbox Team, and I am here to answer your Inquiry.

I have seen your ticket and read your concern, as such, please be informed that the 8-Piece Trigger effect comes from the 8 Slots Pearl Equipments - Helmet, Body, Gloves, Shoes, Main-Weapon, Off-Hand, Underwear, and Awakening Weapons. As we currently do not have Awakening available in-game, the set-trigger could not yet be activated

Its ok im sure u look pretty though

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Hieraphant said:

Umm bro scroll up and real Peal Abyss reply to the origional poster saying the awakening costume piece is the 8th item needed not glasses. 

 

Its ok im sure u look pretty though

Not how it worked on pc but mmmk... also chill with the tough stuff... you gotta be one of the most annoying pricks i ever see on this forum complaining constantly and whiteknighting the gms.

Edited by Danksaurusrex
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2 minutes ago, Danksaurusrex said:

Not how it worked on pc but mmmk... also chill with the tough stuff... you gotta be one of the most annoying pricks i ever see on this forum complaining constantly and whiteknighting the gms.

Tough stuff??? Didnt u start your comment with umm bro there tough guy.

And if im annoying for pointing out something stated in this thread and by the origional poster not me and not something the origional poster is arguing then ill continue to be annoying.

As for white knighting, if u scrolled up and read, i did agree he should be refunded due to misinformation, but also stated the technicalities, which the OP didnt mind having a back and forth about.

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